First Warm Day

Ok, good news, in a little while we’re kicking off our second Triparshva, with John leading once again!

The line-up is:

Barbara, John, Genevieve, Colin and Sandra

Genevieve has let me know that she’ll be in America during a part of the renku, but will have computer access, so before things kick off, could the remaining players let John know (over the next couple of days or so) that you’re still keen?

Looking forward to another superb reknu!

294 Responses to First Warm Day

  1. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    Just to let you know that I can definitely join in the next Triparshva. As Ashley said I’m in New York, but computer access is OK, so I’m looking forward to the start.

    All best wishes,
    Genevieve.

  2. John Carley says:

    Excellent. Thank you Genevieve. Anyone else in the house?

    Best wishes, John

  3. Sandra says:

    Yes, I’m here (see my hand waving). Looking forward to giving it a whirl.

  4. John Carley says:

    Thanks Sandra, I’ll see if I can dig up Colin and Barbara directly. It would be great if we could complete the preface/first movement before the holidays intervene. I’m also minded to go against my general practice and use recognised Japanese kigo – or at least not to recast any references that have historic associations with a particular period or season. This might produce some worthwhile insight into what is, in my opinion, a crucial debate.

    Best wishes, John

  5. g’day John, all

    Thank you, yes, please. I’m here.

    I thought John, you would have wanted a breather before the next journey. But, I’m ready to go.

    Peace and Love
    B

  6. Sandra says:

    Col has replied in the affirmative on the “current renku” page …

  7. ashleycapes says:

    Excellent – all five are present and accounted for! Looking forward to watching a great renku come together, guys

  8. colin stewart jones says:

    hi all
    i on th eright page now
    lookin forward to working with you again john
    and keen to met some other renkunauts

    when do we start?

    col

  9. John Carley says:

    Call for hokku submissions.

    Hi all, thanks for coming. What is most impressive about The Snail is that it seems to generate an almost improbable amount of group awareness – not an easy thing for ‘remote’ composition. This quality of ‘being there’ is extremely important in Japanese renku theory. The term used is ‘za’. This comes originally from ‘ichiza’ which at it’s most literal referred to a felictious set of seating arrangements for those taking part in the composition.

    Let’s see if we can get the first movement (six verses) written before Christmas/Yuletide intervenes.

    Ok, we’ll go with a mix of ‘competitive’ and ‘by turns’ to keep a balance of speed and variety.

    In the two Junicho and the one Triparshave I’ve led on the Snail we’ve kind of fudged a lot of kigo issues. This is mainly because I have a bit of an agenda about kigo (not to mention kidai and hon’i). The late Bill Higginson and I used to row about this quite a lot – in a friendly kind of way. The one thing we agreed about was that it was necessary to understand the fundaments behind kigo, rather than just tick boxes.

    For the purposes of this poem I’d like to adopt a stance that Bill would have approved of: that we pay heed to the historic (Japanese) cannon of season reference, at the very least that we do not actively subvert it (which is what I ususally do). Let us however go with four rather than five seasons (in the historic literature ‘New Year’ is a fifth season).

    Hokku – please adopt the season which is current for you. Here is is ‘winter’. For some colleagues it will be ‘summer’. Whichever hokku is chosen will dictate the subsequent shape of the poem.

    Please feel free to submit three or more candidates. This may include previously published haiku as haiku and hokku are effectively indistinguishable. You may wish to pay some heed to the historic practice that the first couple of verses were ‘performative’ in that they were capable of a coded reading referring to the composition itself (and/or participants therein). But this is not a requirement.

    Go!!

    Best wishes, John

    ps – please note that my BTinternet address is nearly defunct. My webmail is john@renkureckoner.co.uk

  10. Sandra says:

    Hello all, some first offerings

    midsummer’s eve –
    we lie on the lawn
    and talk nonsense

    ripening wheat –
    we whistle
    the latest love song

    summer grasses
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly

  11. John Carley says:

    Hi all, here’s three from me. Try as I might I couldn’t get them all with conventional kigo!

    every good fire
    needs a few chestnuts –
    winter at the door

    steaming gaily
    through the driving sleet –
    broth and dumplings

    the same old fields
    the same old cows –
    every breath a ghost

    I’m off to the Manchester United/Wolves game tomorrow evening so will check back in 36 hours max.

    Best wishes, John

  12. colin stewart jones says:

    winter dusk –
    a magpie hops onto
    a lower branch

    visible breath –
    the shortness of life
    before God

    as it was
    the old tree bereft
    of leaves

    my offerings

    o yeah…c’mon you reds!

    col

  13. g’day all

    Herewith my offers:

    summer storm
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two

    cool breeze…
    shimmering cobwebs
    on bamboo blinds

    a steamy heat –
    still under the fan
    as night falls

    Peace and Love

  14. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi everyone, just trying to get it together after that long, long flight.

    My offers – I hope they’re not too foggy:

    summer camp –
    a banksia leaf
    for a bookmark

    between stories the roar
    of the surf – faces glow
    around the campfire

    sunflowers –
    all day they turn
    their heads in wonder

  15. Sandra says:

    A couple of seasonal poems:

    christmas cake recipe –
    all the ingredients except
    my mother’s hands

    christmas –
    the smell of the barbecue
    under the tree

  16. Genevieve Osborne says:

    or this might be better for the second:

    between stories
    the roar of the surf …
    faces glow round the campfire

  17. ashleycapes says:

    Lots of good ones here! Hard to mention just a few, but my favs are Col’s ‘magpie,’ Sandra’s ‘mother’s hands,’ Genevieve’s ‘sunflowers’ Barb’s ‘cool breeze’ & John’s ‘the same old’ !

  18. Willie says:

    I’ve been lurking about…

    I wonder if Sandra’s poem of a midsummer’s eve spent lying about in “green grass” talking nonsense is my favorite to fit the bill of coded reference to the collaborative effort at hand?

    Col, man, haven’t met up with ya-I really like your laid back style. Not to the detriment of our other friends, of course.
    Then again, is it not deceptively direct?

    The reference to God may be a no-no in renku tradition at this juncture in the poem, but i sure like the “white breath” kigo, living, as I do, in a place as cold as it gets here, and the comparison to our lives, and whatever relevancy our lives actually have in the scheme of things.

    I’m still thinkin’ on that leafless tree…

  19. colin stewart jones says:

    hi willie
    good to ‘meet’ ya
    and thanks for the positive feedback

    cheers

    col

  20. colin stewart jones says:

    3 nil to united btw
    so i suppose you are still celebrating john

  21. colin stewart jones says:

    [IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l7/colinstewartjones/winterdusk.jpg[/IMG]

  22. colin stewart jones says:

  23. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    Hi everybody, sorry for the delay. I’ve now go my new kit running at light speed, so no more excuses (tho please note email stuff at foot).

    Perhaps unsurprisingly the weary north (coughing cows and rheumatic magpies) loses out to the dynamic south, but try as I might I can’t decide between these two candidates.

    I can’t help reading Barbara’s jacaranda as an emblem of the world-tree (Norse?) and wonder if we are being offered an image of the tensions inherent in global literature.

    And Sandra gives us all of Basho’s pathos – traces of dreams of warriors past, crickets lamenting under helmets – and softens it into something that is more haikai than the old goat ever got close too!

    So what I propose is that Genevieve, Colin and I offer wakiku candidates to either, or preferably both, whilst Sandra and Barbara respond only to each other’s hokku candidates. The eventual hokku/wakiku pairings will decide the issue.

    My email – I’m just about to change from BTinternet to Virgin Media. For the moment please send any direct correspondance to john@renkureckoner.co.uk

    Ok team, we’re up and running!

    Best wishes, John

  24. John Carley says:

    Hi all, sorry – I should have said: wakiku takes the same season as hokku. So we stay in ‘summer’.

    There’s a bit of maundering about the special characteristics of hokku, wakiku et alle over on Renku Reckoner under the ‘Beginnings and Endings’ toggle.

    Best wishes, John

    • Genevieve Osborne says:

      Sorry John – I must have a bit of a delay in my computer. Have now read ‘Beginnings and Endings’. Thank you.

  25. John Carley says:

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    ice cold cider
    fizzelling to itself (s/j1)

    ————-

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    sweat greases the leather
    of my hat band (b/j1)

    ————–

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    random poets
    sound off in the shade (s/j2)

    ————-

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    each raindrop coated
    with the scent of earth (b/j2)

    ————–

    my tuppence worth. J

  26. Genevieve Osborne says:

    some offers for the first one:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    the twins – pretending
    to be each other

    or

    all the time now – the twins,
    pretending to be each other

    a letter – from the twin
    he’s never known

  27. Sandra says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    how blue the sky
    deep within the lake

    untying the mosquito net –
    a cloud pulls away from a cloud

    PS Jacarandas always make me think of “Purple Rain”.

  28. g’day all

    Herewith some offers for following Sandra’s hokku:

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    still counting the days
    since the drought/bat

    or

    magical, a bikini-clad goddess
    out of the mirage/bat

    or

    under a sea of clouds
    at solstice/bat

    or

    melting ice-cream
    drips on the tartan rug/b

    Peace and Love

  29. Genevieve Osborne says:

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    peaches on the windowsill
    pulling in the sun

    in the still heat
    the drone of the fan

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    a purple slick
    on the hot bitumen

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof

  30. g’day all,

    I love Genevieve’s stacatto rain! If only we could have some NOW!

    Also, Sandra’s how blue the sky, and John’s ice cold cider.
    Wondered if fizzling into itself might sound even better?

    Peace and Love

  31. colin stewart jones says:

    summer grasses –
    a golden fuzz
    on the blowfly’s belly (s)

    the new mum
    burps her june baby (col)

    ***************
    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    a young crow calls
    for more crop milk (col)

  32. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    Hi everybody, when I looked at my own candidate rain verse I was reminded of how easy it is to fall into the trap of trying too hard: all the boxes ticked, but nothing inside.

    Genevieve’s deceptively simple verse is the real deal. I particularly like the way the short syllables of the first line/phrase morph into the long syllables of the second line/phrase: an invert reflection of lines two and three of the hokku. And so we have the sense of a more or less ‘closed pair’ that high style demands of hokku and wakiku.

    Let’s to by turns. Colin, would you please take daisan (the third topic) – verse three. This is the place for the squence to begin to ‘open out’ although, as we are adopting the jo-ha-kyu principle, we need to be conscious of the tonal restrictions: no shouting yet, no braggadacio, no sex, death, or rock and roll!

    Best wishes, John

  33. colin stewart jones says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    I still think
    Brando
    was a cool cat

    ****************

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    at the bus stop
    we all agree they should
    bring back trams

    ******************

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    on an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch

    ******************

  34. colin stewart jones says:

    or maybe

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    I still think
    Brando
    was the coolest cat

  35. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Thank you John – lovely to have ‘staccato rain’ chosen – and especially on December 19th … my birthday.

    Thanks Barbara for your comment – and Sandra for your comment on the twins. Also lovely to have a little rain in Sydney and a couple of cooler days before the next over 40 degree onslaught.

  36. g’day Genieve

    Congrats, and happy birthday….
    wow, it’s raining very heavily up here in the sub tropics!

    Thanks John for selecting my hokku verse. I think this pair
    is really a nice summer opening.

    Peace and Love

  37. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Thanks Barbara – glad it’s raining – hope it continues – nice and gentle and soaking-in. Yes, I think the pair is a good summer opening too.

  38. Sandra says:

    Off we go, good choices John – and I liked your fizzelling too, great word.

  39. Genevieve Osborne says:

    … and congrats to you too Barbara.

  40. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    on an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    Good work Colin, that moves us nicely onto completely new territory with just the right amount of sardonic humour.

    Sandra, you next please with a further non-season verse.

    For the moment we should resist the invitation to ‘trump’ the preceding verse – in this case to be more ironic yet that Colin. Such notions of verse-capping work best in the middle movement, or early part of the close.

    One thing I think Colin does invite here is to move from celluloid human presence to a directly drawn protagonist or protagonists.

    Anybody interested in notions of when ‘person’ verses should give way to ‘place’ verses etc might care to run a couple of search strings around ji-ta-ba or ji-ta-han. But don’t take what you find too literally. The guy who first majored on this stuff – Hokushi – tried to pass it off as his master’s voice. It wasn’t.

    New email address is up and running:
    johncarley at virginmedia dot com

    Domain webmail remains:
    john at renkureckoner dot co dot uk

    Best wishes, John

  41. colin stewart jones says:

    cheers john
    i am glad u liked this one

    col

  42. Sandra says:

    Here’s a first pass at it:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    on an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    I watch my figure
    as it jogs home

    the iron’s hiss
    as I wrinkle his cuff

    window cleaner’s garden –
    beds of ladder fern

  43. Sandra says:

    Or rather:

    I watch my figure
    as it strolls home

    And then:

    the rat meets my eye
    his nose never still

  44. Genevieve Osborne says:

    I love the ‘window cleaner’s garden’ Sandra.

  45. Sandra says:

    Thanks Gen – saw someone’s garden over my cousin’s fence yesterday – beds and beds of ladder fern!

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    the way the jade bracelet
    slips up and down her arm

    spearing her bun
    with a chopstick

  46. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    spearing her bun
    with a ///— chopstick (s)

    This great Sandra – tonally perfect: playful without being brash or harsh.

    It just feels a little contracted (the first movement should avoid too much challenge in terms of phonics). Might there be a two syllable adjective in line two? Bamboo?

    Best wishes, John

    ps – degachi alert: we’re going competitive next for winter moon!

  47. Sandra says:

    Yeah, why not add some syllables (ha, I generally have to do it the other way round!)

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    I’ve altered the first line for visual balance, so if you want to take it back how it was, feel free.

  48. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    Many thanks Sandra, ‘lacquered’ is ideal – ‘shiny’ is a nice subliminal set up for the next verse. And moving line one to the simple present + pronoun is also a more direct depiction of the protagonist.

    Ok team – we go competitive for the traditional verse #5 moon verse. Here we have a single winter verse: so ‘winter moon’. Sandra – you are welcome to compete too if you so wish – it is not unheard of for one poet to follow their own verse.

    I’m asking for as much breadth as possible folks because this is a key position. In the event that my own candidates are unsuccessful I’ll take #6 to conclude the first movement.

    But for the mo – no thoughts about conclusions. Come in Barbara, Genevieve and Colin. We are ‘winter moon’. This could be a verse which uses a degree of dysjuncture – looking somewhat like a ‘cut’ verse – but it’s not desirable to compete for impact with the hokku. So, a degree of stealth might fit the bill.

    Best wishes, John

  49. John Carley says:

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick

    ————

    sudden moonlight
    hard against the dark
    snow laden cloud

    mistress moonlight
    captured in a puddle,
    grime and ice

    silver fingers
    grip the frozen grate
    the moonlit street

    auguri, John

  50. g’day all

    herewith my offers:

    still aglow,
    coals in the hibachi –
    crescent moon/bat

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads/bat

    under a pale moon
    lipstick
    the colour of frost

    ~~~

    Peace and Love
    Season’s Greetings to everyone

  51. Genevieve Osborne says:

    my offers:

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    —-

    winter moon, pale
    and hollow, will it crack
    in the wind?

    low on the hill
    the pale moon
    brittle with frost

    cold moonlight
    washing the grass
    white

    —-

    and a Merry, Merry Christmas to everyone.

  52. Genevieve Osborne says:

    oops – the first one should be present tense:

    winter moon, pale
    and hollow, is it cracking
    in the wind?

  53. Sandra says:

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    first spoonful
    of stilton from the round
    winter moon

    (country pub somewhere round Bath, Jan 1, and a round of Stilton on the bar for patrons to help themselves to; it may need a cut at the end of L2, but I was playing a little)

  54. Sandra says:

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    ten below
    and falling
    this moon

    slipping
    with every step
    the moon

  55. colin stewart jones says:

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    myself and the moon
    choose our own course
    over fresh snow

    eggnog toast
    our glasses chinking
    with the moon

    catching moonlight
    the snowman’s
    beercan nose

    col

  56. John Carley says:

    Hi all, I’ve just recieved this in my inbox:

    *Announcing ‘The Renku Journal’*

    Following on the success of The Renku Group (http://renkugroup. proboards. com)
    and the resultant growth of interest in this centuries-old poetic genre, we
    are pleased to announce our intention to publish *The Renku Journal*.

    This exciting new journal will be devoted to all aspects of renku. It will
    be published and edited by Norman Darlington and Moira Richards, and will
    launch during 2010. It will include scholarly articles, poems, discussions,
    contests, critiques and more.

    Send an email to therenkujournal@ gmail.com (therenkujournal AT gmail.com)* *to
    sign up for notices of our progress reports, calls for content, and other
    news about *The Renku Journal.**

    *Norman Darlington
    Moira Richards*
    *

  57. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    Many thanks everybody for an embarassment of riches. In the end it was a toss up between my icy grate (good but nah, overwritten… again!), Colin’s eggnog toast (very good indeed, maybe more suited to the end of a movement?) and Barbara’s moonlit garden. I’ve gone with the latter as I can’t get the image out of my mind of the woman spearing her bun: long costume earings and implausibly big hair (icicles on broccoli heads). Somewhere there’s a hint of ‘pearls before swine’ in here, which sets me up wondefully for #6.

    Ok folks, I’ll try and get some candidates online in the next 18 hours or so which should allow us to select by Christmas Eve. I think it might be wisest then to adjourn until the New Year in order for my last remaining brain cell to regenerate sufficiently!

    I’m sure everybody else is tee-total!

    Best wishes, John

  58. Sandra says:

    Not tee-total, just exhausted – I think I would be less of a bah-humbug about Christmas if it weren’t such a maelstrom of advertising and pressure to get things done “before Christmas”.
    Still, the carols, the tree and the family time make it worth it.
    Best wishes to all triparshva-eens – may the spirit be with you!

  59. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Congratulations Barbara – lovely image.

  60. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    ————–

    sitting round the table
    we all talk sense

    odd as it may seem
    a cure for hiccups

    laughter punctuates
    the conversation

    Comments please o abstemious ones. John

  61. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John – almost Christmas morning here. I like the cure for hiccups. Merry Christmas. G.

  62. Willie says:

    abstemious, indeed!

    Merry Christmas to you all!

  63. colin stewart jones says:

    sitting round the table
    we all talk sense

    i like this one john
    it speaks of the forced civility we have to go through when we have guests
    until of course the drams start flowing

  64. Sandra says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    I apologise for having a “play” with your verses, John, but rather liked the contrast within these 2 lines. I think it closes off this first section with a little wry humour, as well as commenting nicely on what’s gone before – and opens up section 2 for some fun.
    Perhaps I’m barking up the wrong (christmas) tree here, but hope I’m not too far off the trail.

  65. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    * * * * *

    Thank you Sandra. That’s absolutely ideal. Your analysis is spot-on.

    Ok team, we have wrap on the first movement. Let’s reconvene on the 2nd of Jan and go off into the new movement/year. In the meanwhile please feel free to use any down time to come up with candidates for #7. We’ll go ‘competitive’ on a non-season verse that has a sense of ‘relaunch’. It is advisable to avoid anything looking too much like a ‘cut’ verse here as it can risk coming over as ‘hokku mark two’.

    Ho-ho-ho. Trans: glug-glug-glug! John

  66. g’day all

    Thanks John for selecting the broccoli.

    Difficult to think of winter here (sub tropics), of course, as we are now ensconced in the wet season. Inches and inches of rain which does wonders for our water tanks and gardens.
    The perfect christmas gift.

    Happy holidays to you all.
    Peace and Love

  67. g’day John, all

    Thanks for selecting my verse. I do like Sandra’s touch to yours. Thank you Genevieve for comment.

    Wishing you all a very happy christmas, holiday season.
    It’s difficult to think of winter verses here in the sub tropics.
    Christmas is over, and the greatest gift was the several inches of rain. Gardens and water tanks are gushing!

    See you all in 2010!
    Peace and Love

  68. ashleycapes says:

    Yes, I loved Barbara’s garden verse too! fantastic!

    Hope everyone had a good break and that the new year is good one

  69. lorin says:

    Just looking in to see how it’s all going. 😉 great, I see.

    Happy New Year to you all (and you’ll have to wait until Feb 14th before you hear ‘Year of the Tiger’ from me)

    cheers,
    lorin

  70. John Carley says:

    Peace and love to you all too. Thanks Barbara. I was that hippy at the Isle of Wight festival. Jimi was my hero until I disovered Basho (better guitarist).

    Ok team, let’s reconvene. I wonder – is such a definite break an advantage when looking at ‘relaunching’ a poem into the second movement…. or is it simply a disadvantage because we lose the ‘za’ – the impetus of togetherness?

    Here is the first movement. I cordially invite all contributors to compete for position #7. It is non-season. And the gloves are off now in terms of topics and tones. That doesn’t mean that we are obliged to struggle for maximum effect.

    Because this verse position is so ‘prominent’ the temptation is often to write an effectively ‘cut’ verse. The temptation is best avoided for fear of appearing to be simply advancing a second hokku.

    Grrrr. waffling again. Here’s that text. Go! J

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    * * * * *

  71. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John and everyone – a very Happy New Year to you all.

    Here are some offers from me. We’re down the south coast, no power or telephone, no computer connection – so I’ll try to come to town each morning to check on developments.

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    ***

    today let’s just be crazy
    and when no-one’s looking
    slip away

    ***

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach

    ***
    the trains lie
    in the Lavender Bay siding
    breathing and waiting

  72. sandra says:

    Happy 2010 to all – just back from a few days of fierce weather in Wellington, but still not home. Am at my brother’s computer, so let’s see if it affects my versifying (would love to contribute one about the Wellington wind, but that poem still feels like it’s coming) …

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    ***************

    the sound of vehicles
    on the beach road,
    approaching, receding

    in this bluest
    of skies, suddenly,
    a flock of birds

    trapped
    in the venetian blind
    a white moth

  73. g’day all

    Happy New Year!

    Herewith some offers:

    obsessed tweeterers spread
    gossip about
    each other

    yakety yak, yakety yak
    and the same old
    stories

    resolution one:
    to become slimmer
    in the next decade

    real action now
    can save our planet
    from destruction

    Peace and Love

  74. sandra says:

    turning the corner
    with me,
    a fresh wind

  75. John Carley says:

    Hi team, no sign of Colin yet – but I have a question:

    I had to Google ‘galahs’ because of my northern ignorance.

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach

    Does this evoke a particular season in you? If so which (it doesn’t have to be a ‘typical’ literary season)? Or is it ‘year round’?

    Ok – that’s three questions!

    Best wishes, John

  76. g’day John

    Our politicians are often called galahs!

    They are very pretty birds, and where I live, northern NSW, rural sub tropics, I see them almost every day throughout the year. So, for me, this verse doesn’t necessarily imply a season.

    Peace and Love

  77. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi All, Galahs (pink and grey parrots) (or silly people) seem to be here at the beach all year round.

  78. colin stewart jones says:

    sorry for the delay
    Hogmanay goes on just that wee bitty longer up here
    prosperous 2010 to one an all

    digging the ashtray
    two days before
    the benefit cheque

    I did not listen
    to the warning about
    unscrambling eggs

    how long until
    memories of you
    are also dust?

    col

  79. colin stewart jones says:

    or #

    how long friend
    till memories of you
    are also dust?

    col

  80. John Carley says:

    summer storm –
    the spreading jacaranda
    splits in two (b)

    staccato rain
    on the hot tin roof (g)

    the dubbing
    of an old kung-fu movie
    out of synch (c)

    she spears her bun
    with a lacquered chopstick (s)

    moonlit garden
    icicles sparkle
    on broccoli heads (b)

    odd as it may seem
    we all talk sense (j)

    * * * * *

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    Hi everybody,
    thanks for the input. And welcome back Colin. Sorry for the boorishness on my part – the English are notoriously bad at understanding that Thanksgiving and Hogmanay are taken seriously by their cousins and neighbours.

    This is a great verse to relaunch the sequence. So we go with it. As you’ll have gathered I’ve hesitated over issues of seasonality. Again, in my English head, ‘beach’ means ‘summer’. Anyway, kigo/kidai is a huge problem for international haikai. And according to some Japanese experts for contemporary haikai per se. Anyone interested might care to run a search string on ‘muki kigo’ and/or ‘muki saijiki’.

    The bottom line is: does this verse return us to the poem’s opening? No; it does not. But it does mean I think that we need two unequivocall non-season verses before we look at other ‘living things in their setting’ verses.

    Colin, Sandra and Barbara – here’s a challenge. Can you go somewhere strictly non-season that doesn’t rely on images of ‘flocking/chattering’ that link between #6 and #7? Mathematics or physics can be useful at times like these IMHO. Or metaphysics.

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    watching as angels
    dance on a pin

    That kind of thing.

    Go! John

  81. Sandra says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    tour of parliament –
    all those fixed grins

    the theory of relatives
    according to a Marx Brother

    like a diamond in the sky, (italics pse)
    according to Hoyle

  82. Sandra says:

    Hmm, sorry the “parliament” offering is so clearly able to be interpreted as “chattering” so please ignore that and I will ponder further.
    Apologies.

  83. g’day all

    Nice one Genevieve!

    Herewith some offers:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    spikes and spokes
    on chariots of war

    downunder
    she’s a superstar

    into the heavens
    to find the big bang

    Peace and Love

  84. Sandra says:

    Hi John,

    Not sure about the “taniwha”, might be a bit of an “unknown” to most readers, but thought I would offer it up in the spirit of our mixed backgrounds.

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    her red stiletto stabs
    a lawn daisy

    disappearing up his sleeve
    a tattoo of a taniwha*

    *In Māori mythology, taniwha (pronounced tan-ee-far) live in deep pools in rivers, dark caves, or in the sea, especially places with dangerous currents or deceptive breakers. They can be highly respected kaitiaki (protective guardians) or, in some traditions, dangerous and predatory. Most taniwha are associated with particular tribes.

    To read more go to:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taniwha

  85. Sandra says:

    Oh, and hope you and Colin are coping with your winter wonderland! I see that -20C is forecast tonight for Scotland. I’ve had emails from all sorts of people who are “snowed in” and are catching up on correspondence.

  86. colin stewart jones says:

    spiral galaxies tied
    in knots by string theory

    death–a wormhole
    in my mind since birth

    can’t really think
    cold here too …costing a bloody fortune toheat the flat
    maybe more later

    col

  87. John Carley says:

    Hi all, thanks for the very rapid turn around. Snowbound – yeah, I’m with Colin – the problem is the astronomic cost of energy. A lot of old people will die this winter rather than incur debt by turning up the heating.

    disappearing up his sleeve
    a tattoo of a taniwha

    Sandra, this is a great image and excellent linkage on all levels. But the phrasing can be questioned on two counts: over-run and recall.

    The longer I study renku the more convinced I am that we’ve missed out on a whole lot of critical appreciation in regard of the phonic properties of renku, both its expressive component in any given verse and, most crucially, in its use to control the balance between cohesion/diversity in the verse to verse movement of a poem.

    Anyway, this isn’t the place to bore you with the full lecture, but I think it is fair to say that in so far as the Triparshva is intended to be a vehicle to approach the Basho school in the narrower sense we can remark that Basho gave an awful lot of thought to haikai prosody but, in his mature style, used strict form (teikei) in all but the rarest cases.

    I would therefore like to see if the image can be phrased in such a way that the long/short verse proportions were more directly respected.

    In terms of ‘recall’ – I mean by this what the Japanese call ‘torinne’, literally ‘distant re-incarnation’. I’d already remarked that there was a slight danger that our #7 could come across as ‘summer’ and as such, given that it starts the new movement, act as a kind of alternative hokku. I think there is a genuine danger that all those “t’s” and short syllables give a quite direct phonic echo of our wakiku (stacatto, hot tin) and so the effect of #7+#8 becomes a kind of echo of #1+#2.

    I’ve been looking at various taniwah tatoos online:

    a / ~ ~ taniwah
    slips up his sleeve

    a / ~ taniwah
    inked on his arm

    Maybe. That kind of thing.

    Thoughts team? J

  88. Sandra says:

    Thanks for that great information, John. I hadn’t thought about the phonic recall to verse 2 – and it may never have occurred to me! Obvious why you’re paid the big bucks!

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve

    The shark’s connotation of fierceness and prowling for prey is known to all, and in many Polynesian cultures a shark or giant shark is recognised as a taniwha. (Please note the correct spelling of taniwha.)

    Hope this is what you’re looking for …

  89. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Thank you John for choosing the galahs and thanks Barbara for your comment.

    Great to read the info on recall and discussion of the taniwha.

    C

  90. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Don’t know where that ‘C’ came from …

  91. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a great shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s – putative)

    Thank you all, and particularly to Sandra for generously reconsidering the structure of the verse.

    In your comments Sandra you mention that great shark is also an emblem – please would you consider the addition of the extra stressed syllable to line one.

    With its introduction of masculinity in close up this verse seems to me to function brilliantly as the ‘usher-of-love’ (JP: koi no yobidashi). The fact that there is such a name tells us how much Japanese renku theory recognises the importance of such ‘set up’ verses.

    Colin, given that your first contribution was a long verse, and mine a short, I reckon we should switch about. So if I take the next verse, #9, and you answer with #10, that should keep the pot boiling. We’re getting to the point where spring should intervene too – but maybe with you rather than me as I’m still conscious of non-season space around ‘galah’s.

    I’ll start to work up some ideas but won’t post anything until we have a definitve agreement on the text of Sandra’s #8. Sorry for the spelling mistake on taniwha folks – a new word to me.

    Best wishes, John

  92. John Carley says:

    Doh – that suggestion should of course be:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    J (dummy!)

  93. g’day John, all

    Yes, I really like this verse. Nice one Sandra. I notice all the s sounds as we progress on this trip.

    Perhaps John, you were thinking of our golfing pro
    the Great White Shark?

    Peace and Love

  94. colin stewart jones says:

    i have a problem with giant here john
    a giant describes something outside the boundaries of normal proportions

    would large no be better?

  95. Sandra says:

    Ah, but Colin a taniwha is outside the boundaries of normal … anything, really.

    The descriptions I have read indicate that a “giant shark” is indeed what they mean when referring to a shark taniwha – “whale size” was one reference.

    I guess a reason I held back was the “great white” connection (not necessarily whatisname the golfer), although a great white can legitimately be considered to be a taniwha.

    Try thinking of a taniwha as something like St George’s dragon Colin, and see if that helps. Some taniwha have recognisible shapes, like a shark, but many do not.

    Don’t worry about the spelling mishap, John, we’re all going through a long and arduous discussion on the use and sound of the letter “h” in the Maori alphabet.
    A city here has had an “h” added to its name to correct what the area’s Maori say was a mis-spelling – but they don’t pronounce “wh” “f” as so many others do, because their dialect is different (they make it kind of like the sound in “whistle”). THEN we get into whether the missionary who first gave the oral language a written alphabet simply mis-heard and all of us have been perpetuating the mistake ever since. Heigh-ho.

    I’m happy with the verse as it stands, but if others consider a tinkering is needed, I can do that too. I would opt for a word other than “large” though.

    Cheers,
    Sandra

  96. Sandra says:

    Would it help to render it thus:

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve

    (I always think hyphens are tremendously useful, but I know others don’t agree!)

  97. colin stewart jones says:

    yes i understand but is the tattoo in giasnt sized proportions

  98. John Carley says:

    Thanks everybody. The analogy to the dragon is particularly helpful Sandra. And yes the hyphen is the solution as it shows that giant-shark is a compound noun whilst avoiding any potential misreading such as Colin highlights. I’ve updated the main page. The poem is reading well. In drafting some initial candidates I was conscious of a pull towards further ‘s’ sounds – as Barbara remarks – and had to ditch things like ‘the striker strips off his shirt’! I also kept coming up with ‘candlelight’ and ‘shadow’ etc, which I junked as potentially running foul of ‘dawn’ at #7.

    Below are some offers. Comments please.

    Best wishes, John

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    —–

    hills and valleys
    flexing in the glow
    of embrocation

    perfect fingernails
    to tantalize
    a perfect body

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh,
    that innocent embrace

  99. John Carley says:

    Doh, still forgot the hyphen. Sorry. It’s correct on the main page. J

  100. Willie says:

    Homer Simpson’s contribution to the English language; Doh!!
    A wizard, a true star, a modern icon; God-like status here in the States…Doh! Well, at least in my household.

  101. Sandra says:

    Very much like the Bobby Moore-Pele verse, John. A first in haiku? Not sure rugger quite matches up.

    Much as I like it, I would like to ask whether “oh” is enough to sustain the second line. Yes, there is a comma to make us pause and really say that “oh”, but still …

    Bobby Moore and Pele,
    the innocence
    of that embrace

    ????

    (And your explanations are always so lucid and erudite that it’s well worth asking.)

    Thanks.

  102. g’day all

    Yes, I too, like the Pele embrace, and think Sandra’s version
    reads well.

    Peace and Love

  103. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j – putative)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/content/image_galleries/pele_prints_gallery.shtml?3

    Hi team, thanks for the comments to date. There’s a certain attraction to the progression galah/taniwha/Bobby Moore!

    Homoerotic content is a standard feature of love verses in Basho’s time so the Triparshva is a good home for it. Likewise unusual or asymetiric verse structure, where it occurs, is almost invariably associated with the ‘development’ movement(s) – JP: ha. In truth, in Basho’s own work, it tends to be in the second half rather than towards the outset.

    How do people feel about the alternative line breaks to the Moore/Pele verse above?

    Best wishes, John

  104. lorin says:

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace

    I like this version for the stress that the end of the line gives gives to ‘innocent’, so that ’embrace’ gains more force.

    I disagree about there being no season for galahs, though. You find more of them about in the Winter than any other time of the year, all wearing football scarves, chanting war-songs and generally making idiots and nuisances of themselves. 😉

    lorin

  105. Sandra says:

    Yes, that’s a nice rewrite John. Thanks for the link to the pic too. I had imagined them with their shirts on!

  106. colin stewart jones says:

    john i am all bombed out after hogmanay an all that
    i like yr football verse too

    it would seem like a good idea to bring on a sub about now

    my apologies for not being ale to go on

    col

  107. Willie says:

    If I may: the structure accomodates the exclamation ‘Oh’,
    adding emphasis to the implication of homoeroticism.
    A brazen, hooligan type of love, Lorin, all posturing: muy, muy macho!

  108. colin stewart jones says:

    ok forget that

    i was feeling about down today after a stint of sabaki-ing
    and was ready to quit renku

    john you are as saint to put up with being sabaki for all these years

    onwards

    on the moore pele thing

    i think the oh could be read as ooh by some
    and that is getting into frankie howard…
    titter ye not ..territory and gay sterotypes

    by stating how innocent the embrace was suggest that not
    all embraces between sportsmen are innocent
    i dunno complicated stuff
    how about not stating anything at all and leaving the reader to speculate

    bobby moore
    and pele embrace
    after the game

    i know the world cup is coming up
    and the english press will be whipping the english in a frenzy with all their hype
    and my english half wishes them well

    inger..lund inger..lund

    but my scot’s half says
    i don’t wanna be hearing any 1966 references just yet please lolol

  109. colin stewart jones says:

    btw i know this one was 1970 mexico

    col

  110. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    Hi all, thanks for the feedback. For the moment I’d like to go with the drkaft above for our working text. All aspects of all verses are under review untill we sign a poem off as ‘finished’.

    Yes, being sabaki can really take it out of you Colin – whatever has happened pal don’t let it get you down. Something I learnt early on, and well before attempting to lead my first poem, is that, from the contributing poet’s point of view, the sabaki is never more right than when he’s wrong – by which I mean: if one is really convinced that the sabaki is messing up, and one has raised the issue politely, after that it’s time to shut up.

    On the specific issue of ‘oh’. I think an advantage of not having it on it’s own line (per my original draft) is that we avoid really exaggerated attention on the word – with the attendant danger that it can slip into parody, as you say. I think, in the draft above, it takes a deliberate act of constructive reading to get to ‘ooh’, as in ‘er missus, No!” (Frankie Howerd was one of my heroes. Wig and all).

    Yes it is true that an implication of this verse is that not all embraces are innocent. I hope the homoerotic content is value-neutral here: the stanza simply laments the loss of innocence. Or perhaps it lauds the possibility of such innocence.

    As it happens I remember that moment live: it was probably the first time that a white person and a black person had embraced, skin to skin, on British television. Let alone two men.

    Any poet can post a ‘pass’ at any time. Colin, please consider if you wish to do so here. No explanations are necessary.

    Should you wish to submit for the next position it is ‘end-of-love’, and could ideally be set in spring. End-of-love (JP: koi banare) is a verse which generally can only be understood as a ‘love’ verse thanks to the fact that it follows one or more evident ‘love’ verses. End-of-love is generally written so that it makes a figurative reference to desolation, despair, dissappointment, just possibly ‘unpleasant diseases! – all the things that characteris the end of the affair! For some reason, from the earliest days of medieval linked verse, ‘love’ sequences never end happily.

    Best wishes, John

    ps – galah as ‘winter’ – hmmn, but ‘galah’ as ‘galoot’ – now there’s a thing, is it a homophone or cognate? In fact I find it is from the Yuwaalaraay language, and so the former. Weird! J

  111. colin stewart jones says:

    if only
    they’d scored

    sorry couldn’t resist
    let me give this some thought
    but yes i would like to take the position

    col

  112. Willie says:

    ha ha ha ha!!

    Steady on, lad!

    Actually, the …la la never occured to me until your historical reference, John.

    Honest.

  113. colin stewart jones says:

    a love lost–Shakespeare
    said it better back in the day

    the single size winter quilt
    back in the bottom drawer

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope

  114. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    That’s excellent Colin. I really like all those long emphatic syllables – it counters the light triping beat of the previous two.

    There is a convention in held in some schools of renku that only one season should be directly named in a sequence. The tendancy would be to hold to this the more as our particular season ‘summer’ was named in the hokku (therefore greater gravitas is attached). We’ve just disregarded that particular convention. But – I would fight shy of naming any further seasons directly and, had Colin’s offer been for a position at the start of a folion/movement I’d have agonised more (‘cos such things stand out to greater scrutiny when they are in such ‘prominent’ and ‘mirrored’ positions.

    Right – following Colin with a second spring verse that isn’t bleak is going to be a challenge. I’m throwing this position open to all comers. That includes ‘spectators’. Also I’m open to ‘found’ or ‘introduced’ verses (ie. from extraneous sources or persons) as long as we can deal with copyright issues.

    Nice one team. This is on track. I’ll update our main page later.

    Best wishes, John

  115. g’day all

    herewith some offers:

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    an attempt to find
    meaning
    in the cuckoo’s calls

    or

    yet plum blossom
    litters the rim
    of this rising well

    or

    by the fish pond
    overly intoxicating
    narcissus scents

    peace and love

  116. Sandra says:

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    but the blackbird
    sits on the fence &
    sings … sings

    stuttering light
    and the sound
    of tea being poured

  117. Willie says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes
    (alt: to old bop tunes)

    a few vicodan
    and some cocktails
    help to melt the ice

  118. Mysha says:

    Hi everyone,
    No longer just a spectator sport, it seems. OK, here are two of mine. They came out opposites, even from the same start. The turn in the second one may be to strong, though; I’m not sure.

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    maypole in the rain
    and we under the green trees
    watching together

    maypole in the rain
    and here where we found shelter
    we hear the frogs sing

    Mysha

  119. John Carley says:

    Wow! Thanks everybody so far. I’ll hold off for another 24 hours.

    Best wishes, John

  120. Sandra says:

    made the great lord
    get off his horse –
    these blooming cherries

    – Issa
    (this version from The Haiku Seasons by Higginson)

  121. Sandra says:

    And now I’ve had a second squint at it I’d like to revise my earlier submission to:

    but the blackbird
    sits on the fence
    singing … singing

  122. Willie says:

    Mysha, might you consider adjusting or rearranging the lines of your first submission to shorten the reading of it?
    I do like the image.

    • Mysha says:

      Hi Willie,

      Yes, I figured the difference in style might be noticeable. (-: This short style to me feels a bit like:

      maypole
      rain
      green trees

      Not that that’s there’s something wrong with that image, BTW; it’s just a different one. I did feel the poem needed a first-person verse, though. Well, maybe:

      maypole in the rain
      we watch together
      under trees of green

      Obviously, you can’t leave out words and not loose meaning, but this one is a similar. It leaves out “our” realisation that it’s still spring feast, though, but I guess that leaves more interpretation open to the reader. Anyway, this one doesn’t have that pendulum meter that maybe doesn’t fit so well as part of a longer poem.
      Better for you, or worse?

      Mysha

      • Willie says:

        Ahh…I’d thought I’d mention it because sabaki sets great store on the flow of reading a poem, and worded as it was, it felt a little halting to me.
        Of course, we Americans are often curt, short, and clipped in our speech patterns.

        Yes; artless!

  123. Sandra says:

    From The Essential Haiku, ed Ross

    morning breeze
    riffling
    the caterpillar’s hair

    – Buson

    a bee
    staggers out
    of the peony

    – Basho

  124. Mysha says:

    I’ll join Sandra in second squinting
    (but the blackbird/sits on the fence/& sings & sings ?)

    In my case, I’d like to reword the frogs version to:

    maypole in the rain
    together in a dry spot
    we hear the frogs sing

    Not the same thing, of course, but close, and to me it speaks more.

    Hm, writing this, it dawns on me that the image of frogs singing, though to me a general concept, is really something I picked up long ago from Onitsura:

    in spring frogs sing
    in summer
    they bark

    Does that make this uzumiku, even if it’s for the theme rather than the linkage? (No, that’s not intended as a contribution; it is after all a hokku of its own, and we already have one of those. (-:)

    Mysha

  125. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    despite the drought
    the pear tree
    bursts into bloom

    or

    despite the drought
    the pear tree
    breaks into blossom

    yet the welcome-swallow’s young
    are hatching
    under the eaves

    on perfumed paper,
    a letter from
    an unknown admirer

  126. Mysha says:

    Hi,

    The frogs are there as a kigo, of course, as John asked to honour those. To me, using those seems to invite a certain haiku-ness, though. I expect that could be avoided with more practice, but is that a target worth aiming for?
    However, as a last one, another frog, one that does have that desolation John expected. (I had to tone it down a bit, though, or it certainly would have been a haiku again. (-:)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    the sound of a frog
    is my only companion
    at the water’s edge

    Mysha

  127. Willie says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    nothing to remark
    yet tomorrow
    the turtles sing

    Do we need the article? The question could be moot…

    (I like the idea of the amphibians and reptiles in song-)

    • Mysha says:

      Ooh, nice, if slightly absurd.
      I think we would need the article. Without it, it would be a change from something else, e.g. singing beetles. But then there would be something to remark for today.

      Hm, a view of Teenage Mutant Hero Ninja Singer Turtles opens. (-:

      Mysha

  128. Willie says:

    Yes, another obscure JP kigo, much like the ‘worms crying’ in autumn. I was waiting for an excuse…!

  129. Willie says:

    Speaking of obscure…
    we’re seeking some help on choosing a hokku for a renku at

    http://greenteaandbirdsong.blogspot.com

    we’d appreciate your comments-sorry to butt in again.

  130. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    Thank you everyone for such a wonderful array of alternative directions. Willie’s verse here is particularly notable. There is no element of ‘mentation’ – of intellectualisation (c.f. kokorozuke/imizuke) – involved in how it counters Colin’s bleakness. Instead it softens the edges of sorrow with the sympathetic ‘lingering light’ (which just happens to be a classic spring kigo) plus the auditory balm of ‘old jazz’ whilst slipping in almost unremarked the reference to gendai haiku, a symbol of rebirth – and in haikai too. Respect!

    On a technical note: anyone who is interested in ideas of ‘intermission’ (JP: sarikirai) might like to consider the relatonship of ‘noisy at dawn’ and ‘jazz in lingering light’.

    Ok, let’s focus in on our core writing team and go back to turns to pick up the pace. Barbara is up next with a non season verse that can go just about anywhere it wants.

    Forza ragazzi! Gian

  131. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Congratulations Willie, it’s a lovely verse.

  132. Willie says:

    dang…’noisy at dawn’, huh? lemme have a look…
    Thanks, Gen, too kind…

  133. John Carley says:

    Hi Willie – sorry buddy, I’m misleading you. In terms of intermission or ‘minimum seperation’ (JP: sarikirai) the two references to ‘state of daylight’ are, at 3 clear verses, sufficiently distant. And in truth many topic groupings would put them in different categories; dawn is considered to belong to ‘night things’ in many approaches, whereas lingering light is viewed as ‘day things’. Then there’s the question of whether Japanese topic categories are suitable for renku in other linguistic and cultural contexts (a bit like the kigo issue).

    I’ve finally finished the first of series of articles dealing some aspect of this stuff so I suppose they are very much on my mind at the moment. ‘On Backlink’ is up at Renku Reckoner, and the next one ‘Occurrence and Reccurrence’ is under construction. It’s a biggie!

    Best wishes, John

  134. Willie says:

    Eureka!…distance! Though I hadn’t thought of it.
    Got only so far in the internet search, then had to walk the dogs (two extra staying over from my unmarried son-Grandchildren!) Was on the scent ’til then, then off to sleep in a dog pile-something comforting in that. (a three dog night)

  135. g’day all

    Congrats Willie!

    Herewith are some offers.

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    already too late
    to save our planet

    or

    great expectations
    at the top of the list

    or

    sustainable energy
    #1 on the list

    or

    time out, take five
    before full steam ahead

    ~~~

    Concerned that expectations may be too close to hope…

    Peace and Love

  136. Sandra says:

    Does the final verse become too choppy if like this:

    time out, take five
    full steam ahead

    ????

    (I don’t have much knowledge of jazz, but know Take Five so was happy to have “got” the allusion 🙂 )

  137. Willie says:

    ‘sustainable energy’-an allusion to lingering light and/or hopefulness? perhaps the first three verses allude to some sort of hope? Ehhh! Just my read…wish lists?
    I didn’t pick up on ‘take five’.

    (hhemm, hmmm, mmph, mutter…)

    too late
    to save the planet

    kiss noise, Barb

  138. Sandra says:

    Just for fun, Barbara:

    time out, take five
    at the top of the list

    to share that a lot of people have gone back to work today after the Christmas break … but no one really wanted to go!

    Summer seems to be slipping by too quickly.

  139. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Summer has certainly sped away from Bermagui (small town, south coast NSW), in the high forties last week and now a cold westerly and snowing in Nimitabel, only 100 kms away!

    Sitting in a cafe – with the computer plugged in – looking across Horseshoe Bay to Guluga (Mt Dromedary), clear as a bell in the westerly, with deep pink and grey clouds (must be the galahs) making horizontal bands above it. Beautiful, beautiful.

    Barbara, I like ‘time out, take five’ too.

    Sorry I’m not joining in discussions very much but feel I can’t loiter too long at the table. Be back in Sydney soon (sob) and will join in more then.

  140. colin stewart jones says:

    i just found out this site is publically viewable

    can someone delete the junicho above please

    sorry for the inconvenience

    col

  141. colin stewart jones says:

    thx ashley

  142. g’day all

    Thanks for your comments.

    Willie, Time Out is the name of a very famous jazz album (back in sixties) by Dave Brubeck. Take Five is well known piece from this album.

    Peace and Love

  143. Willie says:

    Yeah, I can’t remember the sax player’s name-Paul Desmond? Had that flawless smooth tone, an alto horn, I believe. Take five in 5/4 time-thus the name…I heard it so many times it became like an earwig-it wouldn’t go away, so I just dismissed it.
    Never enough bucks to load up on all the classics, so I’d buy more selectively, try things a little more emotionally evocative, or stuff that swung really hard.
    Like the ’50’s and ’60’s hard bop and modal stuff of late.
    Yeah, call me a show-off.

    smooches

  144. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    **** *** *** **
    time out, take five (b)

    Hi all, this is a good place to have a relatively tight link (c.f. ‘shinku’) – the more so when it is phrased with such snap, and rich in overtones. To my ear therefore this phrase works best as the payoff. But if so, what is the set-up line?

    Yes Barbara ‘expectations’ is too close to ‘hope’ – but principally this is because of its contextualisation in terms of ‘urgency/prioritisation’, in this it returns us to ‘defeat of hope’. If we totally recontextualise it, it looks different:

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    Sneakingly I really like this as ‘great expectations’, by virtue of its positional echo to gendai, becomes literary hence: Great Expectations! But if we look at this…

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    #1 on the list
    time out, take five (b)

    …it also works really well – a testament to the strength of the phrase that I’m giving here as line 2.

    I think whatever route we go down we need to avoid making anything that might come across as a direct statement or address to the reader, either about where we are in the poem, or in respect of a belief or conviction – the former tends to ‘break the spell’ whereas the latter is a mode of discourse that I don’t believe renku can sustain (have a look at http://renku.home.att.net/kasen/Basra.html )

    Thoughts please team, with first call to Barbara naturally.

    Best wishes, John

    ps – my only problem with playing in 5 time is that it’s a devil of a job phrasing in any other way than Brubeck!

  145. g’day John

    Thanks for comments. I was unable to open the Basra link.

    Of these two revised offers (which I really like)
    my preference is for this:

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    Here we have literary and music link together and it also opens to a widening journey…

    I’ll be happy with whichever you decide.

    Peace and Love

  146. Willie says:

    You’ve got an end parantheses stuck on their:

    http://renku.home.att.net/kasen/Basra.html

    (hope this works)

  147. ashleycapes says:

    Oh, I desperately want to throw a few cents in re: jazz – but here’s two only 🙂

    the live version of take five from ‘ Essential’ is infinitely superior to the version from ’59 lp (highly recommended indeed)

    and ‘Red Clay’ by Freddie Hubbard is currently on high rotation (again, a live version of the title track. wow.)

    Sorry for that – I’ve ‘cleaned’ up your post Sandra 🙂 and fixed John’s link – though Willie’s is a-ok too!

  148. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    Many thanks Barbara – I realised at about 3am this morning that the way my previous post read probably gave the impression that only those two suggestions were eligible – whereas I had intended them purely by way of illustration and though you might wish to consider an entirely new line/phrase.

    But it’s true: the Great Expectations and Take Five juxtaposition is wierdly effective – very hard to think of anything better even if one were to wish to do so. I can’t quite figure why this should be, though I’m convinced a part of it is purely down to sound – both the internal movement, and its contrast to Willie’s more discursive meter.

    Genevieve – your turn to take us forward. This will be our last non season verse before we move into a passage of three autumn verses. It is probably advisable to avoid outdoor locations (unless they are urban and not dependent on time of year). Other than that just about anything looks open to me.

    Thanks for cleaning up that link to the Basra poem folks. I think somewhere on site Bill posted a kind of appologia – no, more like a rationale about why thematic renku might exist – anyway, irrespective of one’s opinions about the subject matter I think the piece is of considerable interest. At the time I was impertinent enough to plead with Bill not to post it publicly. As ever he was courteous and tolerant in his response.

    Best wishes, John

  149. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi everyone, sorry for the delay – here are some offers:

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa, fifty
    cameras obscure her face

    the true identity
    of my benefactor
    uncovered

    packing for the trip
    of a life time, how many
    heels and party frocks?

  150. Sandra says:

    Hmm, can we mention a number in this verse, if there is one in the preceding verse?

    (There’s a great photo of a crowd of people photographing the Mona Lisa.)

    The number might be changed for something like “camera flashes”, just as a suggestion.

    And can we use clothing when there’s a sleeve in verse 2?

    I may be getting it all wrong, though …

  151. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g – provisional)

    Hi Genevieve, that’s a really good multi-layered response that takes us somewhere completely different, and changes the tone successfully after our pleasant interlude with gendai haiku and 8 track tapes (perhaps only I’m old enough to remember those).

    The suggested ammendment is purley to pull ‘the music’ into the equation – to balance the overall long/short verse cadence of the movement. Thoughts please.

    Sandra – good questions. Numbers – if they were both enumerators (‘ten fish’ in verse J, ‘seventeen hats’ in verse K) then I think the answer would have to be ‘bad’. The nature of renku (the effect of the imperative to ‘shift’) means that as a verse form it can’t develop motifs and refrains, so any such contiguous repetition of a notable part of speech, or phrase structure, is going to look a bit marooned.

    In the case in question though ‘take five’ is not really an enumerator – it’s more a kind of informal injunction (albeit one that it originates with ‘five minutes’ and in our poem also mean ‘five beats’). So we *could* live with it. However, given that in my opinion the verse improves with being slight shortened, that was the first place I looked to cut: turning a possible problem into a non problem.

    Clothing – yes, no problem. There are two factors in play here – ‘sarikirai’ and ‘torinne’. The first would limit our ability to repeat obviously related topics within a given arc of verses (in this instance it would probably be 4 or 5). The second would limit our ability to use very closely related words or concepts when other features of the verses in question and/or the linking to adjacent verses had palpable similarities Effectively this opperates over the whole span of a Triparshva.

    This is a crucial area of renku theory. I’m currently working on a series of related pieces for Renku Reckoner. The first, a caustic attack on the inadequacies of ‘backlink’, is already up on site under the Link, Shift and Variety button.

    Not for the faint hearted!

    Ok Gen – over to you. Once we’ve finalised this verse I’ll update our main page. And then I think it’s probably me with the first of autumn.

    Best wishes, John

  152. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John, the ammendment is fine with me – the rhythm definitely better. Best wishes, G.

  153. Sandra says:

    Here’s one picture of the scrum in front of La Giaconda, although not the one I have seen recently, which is much more of reportage shot than this:

  154. John Carley says:

    Many thanks Genevieve. Ok team, here are three potential candidates. Comments please. J

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    ———-

    a marble terrace
    cluttered up with leaves

    the dying leaves
    a lipstick shade of red

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum

  155. Sandra says:

    I like V1 & 3 the most.

    Would suggest though:

    a marble terrace
    cluttered with leaves

    The “up” seems superfluous.

    and would inverting the lines of V3 make it stronger as a finish?

    around the mausoleum
    a veil of fog

    Not sure. “mausoleum” is a gorgeous word, so redolent of so much.

    V3 is a v. good contrast to the galahs too, although might “fog” be construed as repeating “grey”? Personally, I see it as a compliment.

  156. Genevieve Osborne says:

    I also like verses 1 & 3 – and I like the inversion of lines in verse 3 – gives a natural end of line pause after ‘mausoleum’ – lets all the lovely sounds hum while waiting for the next line.

  157. ashleycapes says:

    Though just observing, of course, I love V1, it’s an image that strikes me immediately.

    I agree with Sandra about the ‘up’ – but also wonder whether the reading rhythm actually requires ‘up’?

  158. Willie says:

    1)a queue seems orderly while a clutter does not-does this position require a muted, shasei approach, to avoid overindulgence in…umm, you know,…

    3)a mausoleom is redolent of grieving-was there not concern of being overly melancholy by virtue of repetition in this autumn series?

    2)red lipstick is a play on the Mona Lisa’s eternal beauty, hinting at sexuality, undying, amidst early autumn’s leaves.
    I find this verse subtly uplifting, suitable for this stage of the season.

  159. g’day John, all

    Of the three verses I prefer this one:

    the dying leaves
    a lipstick shade of red

    Peace and Love

  160. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    Hi everybody, thanks for the considered comments. I’ve gone with this for a number of reasons. The ‘leaves’ verse puts us too far into autumn – the internal chronology of any run of season verses should be ‘natural’. In a short sequence like a Junicho this doesn’g have too much impact as there are only two together anyway. But in a Kasen you might get as many as four (there are instances of five) in row. And here in the Trip there are three. Therefore the initial autumn verse needs to be early or mid autumn otherwise it too strongly restricts the scope of the following few.

    I don’t think there is any danger of ‘fog’ generating a return to ‘grey’ at the head of this movement. But I am a litttle bit wary of ‘red’. This isn’t a pressing concern, and we could easily get away with it. But if there’s another candidate…

    I think ‘veil’ needs to remain on the top line as it is a part of the ‘primary level’ linkage: face/veil. Willie makes a good point about melancholy but we can view this as part of the set up for ‘moon’: how does it respond to ‘death’?

    We’ll see. Maybe. Colin is up next with the second of our autumn verses. This verse is also regarded as tsuki no za – the position (seat) of the moon – the majority of Triparshva, ditto Kasen, have the principal moon verse (autumn moon) here. But it doesn’t *have* to be. It could in fact slip to the last verse of the movement. This is your call Colin.

    Best wishes, John

  161. Sandra says:

    Thanks, John, for your explanations re the verse choice and the reasons why – it all aids my learning.

  162. colin stewart jones says:

    the moon
    nurses clouds
    in a waking dream

    sometimes
    the moon need not
    be there

    col

  163. John Carley says:

    noisy at dawn
    pink and grey galahs
    wheel along the beach (g)

    a giant-shark taniwha
    slips up his sleeve (s)

    Bobby Moore and Pele
    oh, that innocent
    embrace (j)

    spring does little
    to bring fresh hope (c)

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c – provisional)

    Hi all,
    there is a widely held belief/convention that the moon should never be secondary in a moon verse, and certainly not absent!

    People who have had the misfortune to complete a couple of poems with me will also know that I bang on endlessly about metrics, proportions, euphony, etc.

    There are instances in Basho’s own work where verses towards the end of ‘ha’ show very odd structures indeed (so much so that later editors ‘corrected’ many).

    For these reasons, Colin, I wonder if you’d consider the single line layout – simply on the grounds that it tells the reader that this is a deliberate anomally. Should this be acceptable to you I will then throw down the challenge to all and sundry, ‘watchers’ as well as core team, to respond with a closing verse that provides a resolution to the ‘problem’ you set.

    Best wishes, John

  164. colin stewart jones says:

    i am happy with it as a one-liner john

    col

  165. Sandra says:

    You’re looking for a 3-liner now John? Or another 2?

  166. John Carley says:

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    Thank you Colin. I’ve updated the main page. And that is exactly the question Sandra. The last movement will revert to the typical long/short balanced alternation of lengths. But how do we approach #16 – which must close the movement as the final autumn verse, and also mediate the effects of Colin’s unconventional autumn moon or, put another way, negotiate the tramsition back into typical meters? Let us see how people tackle the connundrum!

    btw – here, below, are Basho and Kikaku on a roll. I’ll probably have to take this down after a few days because Frogpond have yet to publish this text.

    Best wishes, John

    Second folio, front (second movement of ‘ha’). From the Kasen ‘The Verse Merchants’ (shi akindo) translation Yachimoto and Carley:

    soon my intended,
    the season’s first blow
    on the fulling block Kikaku

    all fighting over
    the kuzu knows no grudge Basho

    just for a jest
    Madame Komurasaki
    cast in gold Kikaku

    dark as a sea bream
    Otoku’s breast Basho

    her wrack of hair
    will coil and crack
    the sazae’s spines Kikaku

    Poseidon’s underling
    the wave-tossed cape Basho

    clasp your iron bow
    and enter the fray! Kikaku

    enfolding a tiger
    this pregnant dawn Basho

    chilly mountain,
    the Four Sleepers lie
    blown by stormy winds Kikaku

    last embers spent
    I go by finger-tip Basho

    jealous come the morn
    goodwife shuns the moon Kikaku

    a silk wrapped watermelon
    such mean tricks Kikaku

  167. John Carley says:

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    ………….

    the fairy ring nothing but fungus

    for want of a string, no conker

    Hi all, a couple of thoughts from me to get the creative whatnots whatknotting. J

  168. Genevieve Osborne says:

    a first offer from me:

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes thre moon need not be there (c)

    bare birch limbs glisten
    in the autumn rain

  169. Willie says:

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    a worm’s cry ‘neath patchwork leaves

  170. Sandra says:

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    oh for a glass
    of rosehip syrup!

    letting the atlas fall open where it will

  171. ashleycapes says:

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    I turn up late
    once again
    the wagtail looks on

    it’s been a while, but here’s one idea!

  172. John Carley says:

    in lingering light
    reading gendai
    to old jazz tunes (w)

    great expectations
    time out, take five (b)

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    Wow. There are several excellent candidates but this one is unassailable. The fall of the words – the melopoeia – is 100% and whereas the rest of us have gone with ‘autumn’ (‘cos thats what smarty pants here directed) Sandra responds to Colin’s absent-moon heresy with a ‘who gives a monk’s tonsure about the seasons anyway?’.

    Yeah, we’ve had some productive discussions already on seasons and international renku, but the play between these two verses says more – in 19 syllables.

    So much for prose. And me in the middle of a magnum opus on a particularly knotty part of renku theory!

    Hmmn, I’ve updated the main page. We go to the close now, ‘kyu’. This movement has been largely misunderstood as a kind of mirror of the ‘preface’ (jo) – so kind of quiet and staid. In fact in surface tenor it should be quite brash – but not so intellectually charged. By which I mean: we want to hold the reader very much with us as we generate pace – so a lot of extratextual direction, or really tangential linkage, can tend to deflect the movement.

    Right. Barbara is up with a non-season three line long verse. I strongly recommend that we revert to our ‘balanced’ cadences for this ‘rapid close’. I don’t see too many restrictions on execution Barabara other than it is probably best to avoid the indirect or passive voices that characterise the previous two verses.

    Best wishes, John

    ps – I’ve taken the text of Shades of Autumn down out of courtesy to Martin Lucas, the editor of Haiku Presence, as the poem is just about to appear in issue #40.

  173. Willie says:

    Yes, yes, nodding my head…

    Bravo, Sandra!

  174. lorin says:

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    ‘Sandra responds to Colin’s absent-moon heresy with a ‘who gives a monk’s tonsure about the seasons anyway?’. – J

    😉 I’m learning heaps by lurking here from time to time.

    Brava, Sandra!

    ….ha, Willie, gotcha this time 😉

    lorin

  175. Willie says:

    Always, teach me sumpthin’, dear. luv it…

  176. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Congrats Sandra, great verse.

  177. Sandra says:

    Thanks all. Humbled by the praise. One of those “it came from nowhere” pieces.

  178. g’day all

    congrats Sandra!
    I don’t think I got my verse options in for the previous verse……….have had huge storms here and my modem blew up!

    Just back on and now need to reconfigure a few essential things,deal with endless emails and deadlines!!!!

    Please allow me another day. Dealing wih BigPond and Telstra is a nightmare…………waiting, waiting, waiting

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Peace and Love

  179. g’day all

    I’ll offer these, see what you think:

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again

    another fifty bucks,
    my visa’s extended
    and I’m staying on

    I fancy living
    by the beach
    in a sunny paradise

    out-of- date borders–
    different names
    in bright new colours

    Peace and Love

  180. John Carley says:

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    Hi all, sorry for the absence – I’ve been visiting. Thanks for this Barbara. Truth to tell at first reading I only saw the ‘word link’ through ‘fall’ and, though I liked the way the verse resets the tone for our final movement, I wondered if the totality of the connection was too slight. Looks like I was having my own ‘Humpty’ moment! I woke up a three in the morning yesterday realising that I was wrong.

    Genevieve, I invite you to follow this with a ‘winter’ verse. Barbara’s phrasing/lineation has nicely brought us back towards conventional prosody and I propose we adopt this for our closing sequence.

    I’ve a feeling that the previous three verses push us towards a ‘place’ verse here. And we’re probably looking at something relatively uncomplicated.

    Best wishes, John

  181. Sandra says:

    Morning all,

    Our Sabaki John has kindly contributed an article, “Introduction to Renku” to the Haiku NewZ website for the February posting.

    If you’d like to read it, please go to
    http://www.poetrysociety.org.nz/haikunews and click on the “monthly article” link in the top menu.

    Cheers,
    Sandra

  182. John Carley says:

    Willie and Ashley – please can you forward me your surface mail addresses so that Haiku Presence can send your complimentary copies of the issue that carries Shades of Autumn

    johncarley at virginmedia dot com

    Thanks guys. J

  183. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi everyone, some offers for winter:

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    on the palace wall

    all the king’s horses
    are slipping on black ice

    ice and snow at the palace
    all the queen’s men are cold

    snow – bringing the horses
    down to winter pasture

  184. John Carley says:

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    pace the palace wall (g – illustrative)

    Thanks Genevieve for the rapid turn around and a strong take on the verse position.

    I think this is the definitely the verse but just wonder at livening that slightly static ‘on’. Clearly to use ‘pace’ ‘stalk’ or whatever changes the angle slightly. But I think we still have the room to read such a verb as purely figurative, whilst a more surreal image is also at back of it.

    Personally I think the verse position will stand this level of fantasy as, along with its maeku, they sound a rather mocking rejoinder to the cerebral elegance of Colin and Sandra’s closure to ‘ha’. Dunno if you guys are familiar with the Danrin school, but it was contemporaneous with Shomon (Basho school) and you find crossovers.

    Two questions then: is it appropriate to jazz up ‘on’? And if so what is the (monosyllabic) verb?

    Best wishes, John

  185. Sandra says:

    Up to Gen, of course, but you could turn the tone a little with:

    a row of snowmen
    at the palace wall

    inside wanting to get out, or outside wanting to get in? Which leads to:

    a row of snowmen
    at the palace gate

    Then there’s:

    a row of snowmen
    patrol the palace wall

    not a single syllable, though.

  186. John Carley says:

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    at the palace gate (g – per s)

    Yeah, that’s quality Sandra. It also evades a slight hint of ‘uchikoshi no kirai’ – return to the last-but-one verse via ‘fall/humpty/wall’. I didn’t comment on this because I don’t think it is dangerously significant. But it is there though.

    Best wishes, John

  187. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    Yes I think it’s fine to jazz up ‘on’ – I like the ‘level of fantasy’ in the verse. I was thinking before of ‘walks’ – a nice assonance with ‘wall’, or ‘guards’ – ‘a row of snowmen/guards the palace wall’ leaning a bit more towards ‘soldiers’, but perhaps they’re both still too passive. I think I like ‘stalks’ – it puts more of an edge on it. Depends too if you want to use the singular verb for the collective noun ‘row’, or not, then ‘pace’ would become ‘paces’. I know some still insist on it but I think either way is acceptable today.

    So whichever one you think John, I’m happy.

    Best wishes, G.

  188. Genevieve Osborne says:

    … something strange with my computer, I’m getting a delay again…

    but ‘at the palace gate’ is fine with me. Regards, G.

  189. John Carley says:

    Thanks Genevieve. Ok team, we have two alternative takes here. More input please (currently I’m minded to simply adopt ‘stalks’.

    Best wishes, John

  190. Willie says:

    ‘at the palace gate’ has a nice implication for the reader to fantasize some sort of mocking assault on…propriety, yet can be shrugged off as simply a winter scene with snowmen placed there.

  191. g’day all

    I like the use of stalks.

    Peace and Love

  192. Sandra says:

    I know I suggested “at” but trying hard not to be biased … I feel “stalks” is stretching things a bit far. And I take your point re wall.

  193. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    As you say it’s probably better to avoid the hint of ‘uchikoshi no kirai’, (I still have a great deal to learn about all this).

    ‘Stalks’ may be stretching it a bit – how about ‘guards the palace gate’? If not then I agree with Willie, ‘at the palace gate’ makes room for some fantasizing.

  194. Mysha says:

    Hi,
    Well, “leap(s)”, maybe? Or is that too fantastic?
    Mysha

  195. John Carley says:

    queuing to see
    the Mona Lisa,
    cameras in her face (g)

    a veil of fog
    around the mausoleum (j)

    sometimes the moon need not be there (c)

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard(s) the palace gate (g)

    Thanks everybody, and specially to Genevieve for being so open to crits/comments. It’s late and my grammar head is completely gone. I know that the obvious answer is that ‘row’ is singular therefore the verb ‘guard’ is singular too. But for some reason I keep hearing the plural ‘guards’. This may be a difference between Northern English and Recieved.

    Ok, I’ve been trying to work out the closing rotation. It’s not easy – the calculation is based on trying to get equal numbers of verses per participant, trying to get a balance of long and short verses for each participant, and trying to avoid one person always responding to another. But I think we go Sandra, Colin, Degachi, John – or John, Degachi is my flower verse gets selected.

    Hmmn, that has to be ‘guards’ right?

    So Sandra you are next up with a conventional long verse which is the last non-season verse before our trad. closing ‘spring’ run. We probably need to ‘concretise’ the imagery now. Maybe not.

    Other than that things look remarkably open.

    Best wishes, John

  196. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    Thanks, yep ‘guards’ it is.

    Best wishes,
    Genevieve.

  197. lorin says:

    yep, ‘a (singular) row. . . guards’ (a platoon . . .moves, a flock . . .flies etc) Unfortunately, though correct grammar, it often sounds so wrong! So in popular spoken usage, the correct grammar is often ignored.

    I prefer the less directive ‘at the palace gate’, anyway. Leaves more to interpretation.

    lorin

  198. Sandra says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    in the queen’s room
    an occasional
    whiff of the sea

    outside the cafe
    we stand in the footprints
    of the assassin

    the tour guide
    explains the failed assassin’s
    failed suicide

    This link applies to verses 2 & 3:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

    I read this and couldn’t resist:
    To avoid capture, Čabrinović swallowed cyanide and jumped into the River Miljacka to make sure he died. The cyanide pill was expired and made him sick, but failed to kill him and the River Miljacka was only 13 centimetres (5 in) deep.

    A bad day at the office (he’d already missed the royal party with his bomb)!

    I’ve chosen the singular version for Gen’s verse because I think it can be read either/or, ie, the subject is the row/the subject are the snowmen, and the singular seems a little more natural when said out loud. (But I’m happy to follow the Sabaki’s ruling.)

  199. Willie says:

    Aye, Lorin,

    But in retrospect, I considered the more assertive “guards” to be in keeping with the “powerful rush” to conclusion, concise, with little or no allusions, now that I recall some of John’s previous notes here in regard to this folio/sides purpose.

    But, hey, I’m just thinking out loud here. Let’s see what happens.

  200. ashleycapes says:

    in the queen’s room
    an occasional
    whiff of the sea

    love this one, Sandra!

  201. sandra says:

    Ooh Ashley, nice beard!

  202. John Carley says:

    Hi all, please follow down:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    in the queen’s room
    an occasional
    whiff of the sea

    This is, as Ashley comments, a great verse. But. The context to the last-but-one is ‘All the King’s men’. And that verse in turn proceeds in part from the word-link ‘fall’. We are in danger of generating a kind of parathematic strand.

    Now as it happens I’m just about to finalise the translation of one such in a Kasen by Basho and co. But the Kasen is a more extended form, and that particular ‘knot’ of verses all appear within a single part of the development movement (ha – part two).

    Our circumstances are different. The Triparshva is a more contracted form, and the potential ‘knot’ straddles a movement boundary with it attendant expectations of pause, launch, and dynamic change. For this reason I think we need to be cautious.

    outside the cafe
    we stand in the footprints
    of the assassin

    the tour guide
    explains the failed assassin’s
    failed suicide

    The background to these two verses is pure Eugene Ionseco. I love it. I have two caveats. One is that I’m not entirely sure ‘kyu’ is the right place for surrealist irony about death/murder. The other is that the two drafts above seem a little sketchy – like the outlines of the verse rather than the tightened draft. Personally I get someting like:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the failed assassin’s
    failed suicide
    a tour guide’s note

    So I’m going to ask a really big one from you Sandra. Please could you consider giving us a completely different take or two on this verse position, but also consider (a) tightened take(s) on the incompetent anarchist verse.

    Hey, for Snailers, such requests are bread and butter!

    Best wishes, John

  203. Sandra says:

    Yes, I wondered if I’d strayed a little too close there – the first “queen’s” verse I tried was too “Alice” so deleted that, but didn’t keep thinking down that road.
    Right-io, we’ll see what happens.

  204. Sandra says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled

    setting the table
    with strawberry jam
    and knives

    down at the temple
    old women are lighting
    strings of fireworks

    a polished story now,
    the failed suicide
    of the failed assassin

    the river pushes
    against the steps here,
    making waves

  205. Sandra says:

    Gave you an extra one, ’cause now I’m concerned “setting the table” will hark back to the egg! 🙂

  206. John Carley says:

    Hi all, early morning here and I’m running late. But I have to post thanks to Sandra for such an open and rapid response.

    More later. J

  207. John Carley says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    Georgi Markov? The Prisoner? Brilliant Sandra – this verse is a simple or as complex as the reader chooses to make it. It is ideal for the position.

    Colin, you’re up next with the first of ‘spring’. And of course ‘furl’ couldn’t be a better set up for what needs to be a conventional and relatively unassuming short verse set in early spring or winter/spring cusp verse. Just to reiterate folks: the internal chronology of a run of season verses is ‘natural’ – so basically we go from early through mid to late. This is important for sequences such as the Kasen where we freqeuently encounter four spring verses together.

    Respect to Barbara, Genevieve and Sandra for so palpably changing the tone for the initial part of our closing movement. This next pair should, I feel, show that we understand ‘classic’ aesthetics too. Which in turn will allow the last verse, ageku, to act as our contemporary salutation.

    Best wishes, John

  208. colin stewart jones says:

    ‘First a seed must die’
    the farmer rests on his plough

    deep into the copse
    snowdrops hang their heads

    kaPOW! the Joker
    lands one on Robin

    lemme know if any suit
    col

  209. colin stewart jones says:

    should be:

    kaPOW! the Penguin
    lands one on Robin

    the penguin had the brolly afterall
    and robin is a spring kigo lol

  210. Sandra says:

    Nice rewrite, Col.

    Holy white fluffy stuff, Batman, you might want to have a look at V2 as well with its repetition of “snow”: snowmen and snowdrops. 🙂

  211. Sandra says:

    Just a quick alert, and sorry to intrude into flow of the triparshva, to the Katikati Haiku Contest that closes on April 16, all proceeds to the pathway project.

    Find details of the contest here:
    http://www.poetrysociety.org.nz/haikunews/competitions

    and information about the pathway here:
    http://www.poetrysociety.org.nz/node/katikati-haiku-pathway

    I’m secretary of the pathway committee, hence the plug.

    Thanks folks, and back to normal service.

  212. John Carley says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    ——————–

    kaPOW! the Penguin
    lands one on Robin (c)

    If this were a Junicho or a Nijuin Colin I’d jump at this verse. And had we not already started this movement with the fictional ‘Humpty’ (for all that he is also figurative) I’d be sorely tempted notwithstanding the fact that it muscles in on blossom, constrains the scope of ageku, and doesn’t really have a season reference (‘robin’ is an American spring kigo true, and a British winter kigo, but ‘Robin’ is rather questionable).

    In so far as the last movement of the Triparashva, ditto the Rokku, is intended to reflect that of the Kasen I think that our particular circumstances call for a less striking take. (Hmmn…. I’ve just been back to read the whole sequence a couple of times on the ‘main’ page). Maybe this is just an indication of an unwelcome streak of conservatism on my part but I’m going to ask you to approach the verse position from the opposite angle: a most conventional take on both linking style and early spring topics.

    Alternatively, you are welcome to simply decline in which case I will take #20, we’ll go degachi in #21 (blossom) and you can take #22 (ageku) – a position which always rewards innovative thinking.

    Best wishes, John

  213. colin stewart jones says:

    ok john i can’t really think of early spring with all this snow
    i did think ploughing was an early spring kigo tho
    but i can take a later verse if that is ok wi you
    col

  214. John Carley says:

    Thanks Colin, yeah – there are a lot of issues around the seasons per se in renku, specially where our wider conception of ‘appropriateness’ in haikai is rooted in Romantic notions of actuality such as Shasei.

    Ok team, we go John, Degachi (excluding John and Colin), and Colin takes ageku. Below are three candidates the ideas for which were set in train by one of Colin’s earlier offers.

    Comments please.

    Best wishes, John

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    ——————–

    here in the hedgerow
    a dormouse sleeps on

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls

    deep in the coppice
    an old dog rose stirs

  215. Willie says:

    hedgehog-“shades” of Groundhog Day?

    (Feb. 2 / USA–if he sees his shadow, then six more weeks of winter) I wonder if it’s the same critter?

    More active than the sleeping dormouse, perhaps?

    Does the dog rose interfere with blossom?

  216. Willie says:

    Uh-oh…Ash, a little help…

  217. Willie says:

    A good argument why they should be left in the wild.

    I’m outta here…!!!

  218. Genevieve Osborne says:

    It’s OK Willie, I did the same on the Kasen site – the whole thing appears instead of just the address! Gives you quite a shock. Ashley made it disappear.

  219. Sandra says:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls

    Very nice John, the repeating letters and the image both work well and there’s a hint of mystery there too, and, above all, spring is the seaon of mystery. How does the natural world know when it’s time?

    The more obvious L2

    deep in the coppice
    a leaf uncurls

    isn’t nearly as effective.

  220. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    I like the first two more than the third, and particularly like the hedgehog – lovely image of it uncurling, unfurling with the spring, and great sounds.

  221. John Carley says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    Thanks everybody. I was a bit unsure of the direct ryhme but what the hell. And in fact there are any number of similar wheezes in the stuff that Basho and his mates wrote.

    OK. This is the biggie. It is a call to ALL comers to submit for the blossom position. That means core team and anybody else who happens to be along for the ride. Friends: we’ve had ‘furl’ and ‘uncurl’ – the one thing that is certain is that this blossom position cannot be early-just-about-peeking. Traditionally (Japanese trad.) we are looking at cherry or plum. I am in fact open to any earlyish spring blossoming woody plant that sets fruit after blossom. Yes Willie, ‘dog rose’ probably compromised the blossom position.

    Best wishes, John

  222. g’day John

    Yes, I loved the hedgehog and the sounds therein.

    I’ll be back with offers.

    Peace and Love

  223. Genevieve Osborne says:

    A quick one – I’ll be back later. Can we have an ‘I’ in here John? Not sure:

    I wake to steady
    droning – cumquat
    blossom and bees

  224. Sandra says:

    the orchard
    begins to sing
    tree by tree

  225. g’day all

    Herewith my offers:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    gondwana
    revived by blossom chains
    in the orchard

    or

    at midday
    worker bees drown
    in crimson throats

    or

    ah, perfect shelter
    this shadowy glade
    of silver racemes

    or

    stirred pollen dusts
    into blushing pinks
    and virgin whites

    Peace and Love

  226. Willie says:

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    a single pole
    of cherry shades
    the bodger’s hovel

  227. Genevieve Osborne says:

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom

    by the derelict house
    a lone pear tree,
    bright with blossom

    on the table a bowl
    of orange blossom –
    its creamy/green perfume

    • Genevieve Osborne says:

      …the last one better without the slash:

      on the table a bowl
      of orange blossom –
      its creamy green perfume

  228. Willie says:

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    a single pole
    of cherry (shades, marks, adorns, brightens, cools)
    the bodger’s hovel

    I lean towards “adorns”.

  229. Sandra says:

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    cloud by cloud
    the bees
    cross the orchard

    showering us
    as if we were again brides,
    cherry blossoms

    pulling the window
    open tonight,
    lemon blossom

  230. ashleycapes says:

    Ok, one shot at it for now!

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    sudden rains
    splatter the cherry blossoms
    across my fence

  231. John Carley says:

    letting the atlas fall open where it will (s)

    * * * *

    Humpty’s too perplexed,
    can’t get it together
    again (b)

    a row of snowmen
    guard the palace gate (g)

    the tour guide’s
    red umbrella,
    inexpertly furled (s)

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    Hi everybody, thanks for the excellent range of treatments of ‘blossom’. There are many possibles but this one from Genevieve struck me as particularly suitable for a couple of reasons.

    If we are not going to have cherry or plum it seems appropriate that we should have an Antipodean spring icon here – particularly where it has associations of ‘festival’ http://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/Orange-Blossom-Festival.html

    The unconventional structure of the verse appeals to me specially because the overall metrics are perfect, so it reads beautifully in series. And lastly the figurative ‘abuzz with blossom’ nicely responds to the furled hedgehog/umbrella of the preceding pair. Quality!

    So it is over to Colin for our ‘at last’ verse (ageku). Colin, this is nominally a mid to late spring position. Traditionally the ageku his an opportunity to code a summary, augury, salutation or other type of comment in respect of the whole poem. Because Genevieve has pushed the form in terms of the structure of ‘blossom’ it may be best if ageku uses a more or less conventional prosody.

    Best wishes, John

  232. colin stewart jones says:

    so moon, you showed the way
    even if it was a little hazy

    *way – path, hazy moon

    the manservant follows Genevieve
    inside with her feather duster

    *spring cleaning

    an alfresco ploughman’s lunch
    enjoyed on the first warm day

    can do more or change
    lemme know
    col

  233. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John, thanks very much, I’m glad you liked it.

  234. John Carley says:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    ———–

    an alfresco ploughman’s lunch
    enjoyed on the first warm day

    Yeah, but those damn wasps get everywhere. This is the one Colin it just needs a bit of a trim ( I compared renku to bowl of noodles in an earlier poem!).

    Seems to me that what is extending the draft at the moment is the desire to get in a recognised kigo. That’s not strictly necessary here for two reasons – one is that the ageku is largely exempted from a lot of formal constraint so that it can do the performative stuff. The other is that ‘first opportunity to eat outside’ is surely a late spring kigo anyway. And I get that from ‘enjoyed + alfresco’.

    Hmmn. How does this strike you:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    a ploughman’s lunch
    enjoyed alfresco (c – prov)

    Having said which… does ‘ploughman’s lunch’ plus a comment on the weather automatically generate the impression that we are eating outdoors? Do you know maybe it does:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    a ploughman’s lunch
    on the first warm day (c – prov)

    Erm…. Yarm…. Comments please.

    Best wishes, John

  235. colin stewart jones says:

    ok i see whatcha r saying
    i like both short versions

    so i am happy with you to choose seeing as u have more experience in these matters

    but i think i prefer the latter lol

    it’d be good to see what the gang thinks

    col

  236. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi Col, I like the latter a lot. G.

  237. Sandra says:

    Maybe it’s worth remembering that once upon a time there really were ploughman – who worked outside – and doubtless they really had a lunch (although it may not have included Branston’s Pickle).

    So my vote’s for:

    a ploughman’s lunch
    on the first warm day (c – prov)

    But my question is, how does this verse fit in with being an ageku:
    “Traditionally the ageku is an opportunity to code a summary, augury, salutation or other type of comment in respect of the whole poem.”
    Thanks.

  238. lorin says:

    well, missed my chance to throw in some try verses! Love the hedgehog and Genevieve’s orange blossoms though… couldn’t be better , imo.

    Orange trees and Australia…brought John Shaw Neilson’s poem to mind. (probably our most interesting C19 lyric poet, a working man, self-taught) The Orange Tree:

    http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/neilsonjs/poetry/orangetree.html

    To the ageku and its performative function:

    a ploughman’s lunch
    shared with the cygnets

    ?

    hmmm…but it’s probably a no-no to have birds again. (there are the galahs, early on. They are about as far from swans as I can imagine, though)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    a ploughman’s lunch
    but the beat goes on

    ?

    😉 well, that’s probably ‘augury’ in the sense that I’m looking forward to a chance to be involved in another renku, should you decide to lead some more, John. If you’re not exhausted!

    lorin

  239. John Carley says:

    deep in the coppice
    a hedgehog uncurls (j)

    the path to the cottage
    abuzz
    with orange blossom (g)

    a ploughman’s lunch
    on the first warm day (c )

    Thank you Colin and all for the comments. This is clearly the better draft.

    I have update the main page – well partially. I haven’t added all the formal from/to stuff and place, names of contributors etc as I’m not currently at my own workstation and the kit I’m using is a bit old fashioned.

    In terms of augury – I was keen to accept this as an oblique reference to our poem as I was afraid that Colin might otherwise post

    a dog’s breakfast
    on a random morning

    !! Nah. Seriously though the clue to me is in your post Sandra: ‘there used to be’ (such a thing as a ploughman). There are a lot of ways to take the deceptively simple but iconic ‘ploughman’s lunch’ – from the sublimely simple to the perfectly plastic (God, how I hate the ‘heritage industry’). But this is paired with the gently optimistic ‘first warm day’- which does take us outside, and points decisively away from corporate consumerism.

    So for me it works very well. And I have perhaps been guilty of being over directive, or channelling, in the talk of ‘summary’ ‘augury’ etc – which is true, but which like everything else in the Basho school is open to a wide degree of interpretation. For instance this is the ageku from a sequence led by Basho himself (from memory):

    up over the eaves
    a butterfly

    Please can I ask a courtesy: please go to the main page sometime in the next day or so and read the whole text a couple of times. I would be very interested to hear what people have to say about the piece viewed *as a single poem*. Also please have a look for spellinga and so on. I am dyslexic and cannot see substitutions (for instance) – ‘what’ in place of ‘where’ that kind of stuff.

    To properly sign off the piece we need poets’ residence details etc but I think I’ve got all that stuff elsewhere on another machine.

    We also need to think about publication.

    Lorin mentions another poem. Which is a good idea. I badly need to finish a technical article I’m writing for the Renku Reckoner site first though as it is beginning to drag on me. That could work to our advantage because I’m in touch with Haku Asanuma in order to finalise some outline ‘templates’ for his innovative Rokku style of sequence. This is, in my opinion, as big a deal as Norman Darlington’s inspired proposal of the Triparshva. In short I think the Triparshva, the Rokku and the Junicho are the future. So we could try one of those.

    Damn, but it’s cold here. Gotta go light come fires and draw some curtains. I’ll give it 24 hours and a few readings of the whole text before coming back with something resembling a ‘tomegaki’.

    Well done everybody. Another good one, John

  240. ashleycapes says:

    I agree, well done indeed! Looking forward to reading the full text. And I’d love to try something new with you John

  241. g’day John, all

    I am in favour of the first warm day. Works well for me.

    Thank you John for taking us through this journey.
    I will read through everything again to check for any
    needed corrections.

    I’d love to participate in again with you. Have participated in one rokku renku before, and it would be great to engage in another.

    My thanks to everyone for making this an informative and enjoyable process.

    Peace and Love

  242. g’day again

    I’ve read through and rather like the poem.

    Wonder if it might be better to say “our tour guide’s…”
    instead of repeating again “the” ? This would be up to Sandra and John of course.

    What will the title be? There are so many great lines.
    Some possibilities perhaps:

    Summer Storm
    The Spreading Jacaranda
    Noisy At Dawn
    In Lingering Light
    Deep In The Coppice
    The First Warm Day

    Looking forward to what others think.

    Peace and Love

    • Sandra says:

      Not only are there two “thes”, Barbara, but five, all occurring one after “the” other!

      Leave that one to the Sabaki, eh?

      Not sure if it’s possible on this software, but how would “abuzz” look centred on its line?

      • ashleycapes says:

        Hi Sandra, I did some tweaking and reposted the entire renku with ‘abuzz’ centered, so we can have a look. Easy for me to take down/swap etc

        (it’s basically a copy of John’s post but I’ve made that switch)

  243. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    If it’s OK with you at this stage, could we please change the snowmen verse to ‘at the palace gate’. Reading through the text I agree ‘at’ has a better feeling and leaves more to the imagination. It would also be a good solution to any disagreement about ‘guard/guards’.

    Thank you for all your time and instruction John. It has been another great experience.

    Thanks again to you Ashley for this great site and the opportunity to participate in these poems.

    Best wishes,
    Genevieve.

  244. colin stewart jones says:

    enjoyed this one
    cheers

    now where is my pickle?

    col

  245. John Carley says:

    Hi all, ‘at’ and ‘our’ updated. Personally I’m not keen on centering ‘abuzz’ as I find the semantic (figurative) content of the left aligned text already does the ‘concrete’ work for us. In terms of conventions… there is some evidence to show that the second part of ‘ha’ (second folio, first face of a Kasen) is where poets have tended to go down the experimental prosody route (the Trip’s eqivalent area is where we’ve got our two one liners, and the previous Snail Trip used concerete arrangements on _kala’s OM verse. Genevieve – please give us your preference and we’ll go with that.

    The question of articles is an interesting one. The switch to ‘our’ is definitely effective but I note that the alleged run of definite articles was/remains mediated by an indefinite article. This is always an interesting decision when translating from Japanese – a language which does not use articles.

    My own title preference is for ‘The First Warm Day’. Pickle, yum – it’s time for tea!

    Best wishes, John

  246. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi John,

    Thank you for changing the snowmen to ‘at’. As far as ‘abuzz’ goes, I would rather leave it aligned to the left.

    I think ‘The First Warm Day’ sounds very good for the title.

    All good wishes,
    Genevieve

  247. g’day John

    I like the title: The First Warm Day. Pleased you accepted our.

    Thanks again for another interesting and enjoyable trip.

    Peace and Love

  248. colin stewart jones says:

    just had a thought john
    from my comment above

    now where is my pickle?
    the first warm day

    could this be an option or is it trying too hard
    col

  249. kala says:

    well, that’s probably ‘augury’ in the sense that I’m looking forward to a chance to be involved in another renku, should you decide to lead some more, John. If you’re not exhausted!

    lorin

    Ditto !!
    _kala

  250. Sandra says:

    Just the title I would have chosen!

  251. John Carley says:

    Hi everybody, sorry for the delay. I got as far as formatting the poem on our main page and then sliced through my fingertip with a broken light bulb – no more typing for one day! Ouch.

    Please have a look. I think I’ve got the location details correct. Please tell me if there are typos etc – I live in fear of stuff I can’t see.

    I’ve left the draft of ageku Colin. The ‘pickle’ draft you suggest is fine – it certainly isn’t trying too hard – but I don’t think it is an improvememnt. Specifically – I think such structures are best suited to the antepenultimate position because they invite a resolution. Viewed from a different angle: any bipartite verse in a renku tends to focus the reader in on the internal juxtaposition of the verse content, which necessarily slightly diminishes the creative tension *between* contiguous verses. This is not a fault, but it is something to be aware of, and not over used, otherwise it creates a fractured read.

    Where a verse end stops internally with a question mark of exclamation mark I think this ‘internal redirection’ is the more marked. The effect of having one such verse at ageku is that it lessens the ability of the verse to act as a responder to the whole (and so we come back to that augury/summary business).

    The title I’ve put up is The First Warm Day as it seemed to attract a growing consensus. As Ashley comments this has the added affect of introducing a pleasing suggestion of circularity. I dont’ think the ageku, or the poem in general, *needed* this element, but I can’t see that it does any harm.

    Publication – this poem is good enough to publish. And I wonder if it mightn’t find a home in a ‘generalist’ arts/literary publication of some sort. Any thoughts? Targets?

    Best wishes, John

  252. John Carley says:

    The First Warm Day – tomegaki, of sorts.

    I had forgotten, until coming to do the page formatting yesterday, that this poem is written by people from Australia, England, New Zealand, Scotland and The United States of America. Furthermore most particpants have never met, and are unlikely to do so as a group now or in the future.

    In earlier poems at the Snail, and to a slight degree here, we have remarked on how the wide spread of cultural and environmental contexts can make some aspects of renku a little problematic, specially in respect of kigo and the wider concept of ‘season’. But perhaps we haven’t refelcted enough on the inverse: that such a disparate group can not only write successfully together, but also forget that they are disparate.

    Japanese renku theory has a word for this; it is ‘za’. This term originally indicated a felicitous set of seating arrangements for a renga session and has modified over time to describe the ‘group mind’ that must exist for a poem to be successful. Principal theorists of the renku revival of the last century such as Torahiko Terada, Tomoji Nose and Tsutomu Ogata laid great emphasis on such notions, blending strands of Freudian symbolism, semiotics and post-Buddhism in order to define the process. More recently several noted poets have advanced unashamedly metaphysical analyses drawing on Shingon Esoteric Buddhism.

    I am not a religious person, and so tend to resist the latter interpretations. But that’s my problem. What is certain is that whether we refer to it as achieving ‘group mind’ or ‘mandala’ the process exists in all good compositions.

    So Shiki, that most parsimonious of crypto-fascists, was both right and wrong. The writing of renku does indeed entail the anihilation of the individual. But there is more to poetry than Romanticism. And more ways of representing reality than ‘shasei’ and ‘makoto’.

    Hell, if I can share the same head-space as a Scotsman anything is possible!

    Some colleagues might enjoy the following http://neojaponisme.com/category/past/past-politics

    Best wishes, John

  253. Sandra says:

    Lancashire needs its “i” on the main page, John.

    And maybe if all others are being defined by counties/states I should be too.

    So, instead of “Tauranga”, which is a city, you could use “Bay of Plenty” which is a region (and how NZ is divided up these days).

  254. Sandra says:

    I just caught up with the speculation that the Mona Lisa is, in fact, a self portrait (of the artist as a young woman!).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation_about_Mona_Lisa

    Scroll down to “subject”

  255. Genevieve Osborne says:

    Hi everyone,

    Thanks John for all the information – ‘group mind’ has got to be good.

    Just a small note on conditions at Bermagui – far south coast of NSW – gale force winds, driving rain, roads closed north, west and south, floods – and to the east huge seas – but the strangest thing is the foam sent up by the waves, we are in a virtual snow storm, a summer blizzard!…maybe a title for a future renku.

    Please count me in on future poems – when there is space & when you have the time and energy John.

    All good wishes,
    Genevieve.

  256. Willie says:

    Interesting commentary on za, or group mind, John.

    Got wind of a zip renku published in Sketchbook :

    http://poetrywriting.org/Sketchbook4-6No….zip_shisan.htm

    (hope that’s right)

    My first thoughts of learning of the form were how daunting a structure it might be-but that’s just me.

    Upon reading the poem by Eiko Yachimoto leading a diverse group of international writers, I was struck by how the entire poem read as though spoken by one voice.
    It was a very artful piece, too. I was duly impressed.

    Thanks for allowing my input on this latest renku-an honor to be included in such talented company.

  257. colin stewart jones says:

    same headspace as a Scotsman lol u forget I am originally from Prestwich ‘r kid born in Radcliffe ospical lol

    i like the title too

    ok my details

    Colin Stewart Jones
    Aberdeen
    Scotland

  258. John Carley says:

    Hi all, thanks for all the kind comments. I’d be delighted to lead a further poem, or two. I also hope participants have begun to consider whether they in turn might lead a poem in some forum or medium, specially with poets who are new to renku.

    I do need some time off in the next couple of weeks to finish an piece of renku theory and to consult with Haku Asanuma on how to present the Rokku at Renku Reckoner. If this latter is doable in a shortish time frame we could perhaps try one of those, which is very radical, and maybe a Shisan, which is… baroque – hard to do well, but very rewarding.

    Willie -you’ll find stuff on the zip here: http://www.renkureckoner.co.uk/zipschool This is a reworking of the original material. One thing the zip does for renku is generate a regular set of cadences which Japanese colleagues tell me is very like the effect of the fives and sevens (shichigochou) of Japanese haikai prosody. Warning – the zip attracted VERY antagonistic responses from those who regard themselves as haiku’s ‘gatekeepers’, particularly those from North America. In fact the sole reason I don’t write them any more is that I wouldn’t like the opprobrium they attract to influence the critical theory stuff that I advance in respect of renku. Don’t bother submitting any to The Heron’s Nest!

    Colin, I was born in the upstairs front bedroom of 9 Orange Hill Road which is just around the corner from Lillywhite’s Funeral Parlour on Bury Old Road in the part of Prestwich we from round there referred to as ‘Heaton Park’ (the park itself is of course on the other side of the main road). There were many times when I cowered in the corner of an OLOG (Our Lady of Grace) classroom that I fantasised about escaping to Scotland. Or even Radcliffe! J

  259. Willie says:

    Yes, John, I forgot to mention the cadences of the, fifteen syllable and …oh dear, the set cadences, if you will.
    It sounded good.

    I had wondered about the creative aspect of writing set cadences in English, thus my feeling of possible frustration.

    Isn’t the Japanese language more flexible in its placements of grammatical units? (just a rhetorical question) I don’t know-I should worry about English first.

    I should pick up the damn college handbook next to my dictionary and read it cover to cover, more than once. Still, it’s kind of like trying to quit smoking when you still have outside stresses-it doesn’t always work too good.

    You know damn well I’ll be having a go (at a zip) at the earliest opportunity-practice, practice, practice.

  260. John Carley says:

    Isn’t the Japanese language more flexible in its placements of grammatical units?

    Kind of Willie, but not as much as is often made out. The thing that makes the difference between JP and Eng is that the former’s blocs are phonic units whereas the latters are semantic. So three line verses in English seriously limit the scope for ‘meaning’. The zip gets around this by the simple ruse of preserving fixed syllable counts whilst getting rid of fixed lineation.

    by the time I reach the gate post
    another leaf has fallen

    Best wishes, John

  261. John Carley says:

    *******************

    Emergency poem alert!

    Hi folks, elsewhere Ashley will flesh out the background but we’ve been invited to submit a Junicho at short notice (March 31 deadline) for consideration for a serious lit. mag.

    If we have enough writers we can maybe do two poems, and offer them the option. This could be a good experience as it is in some ways reflective of the historic facet of ‘live’ renku in that people have to respond to rapid turn-around pressure.This has aesthetic/metaphysical aspects as well as practical ones in the minds of commentators from at least the 14th century onwards who make much of the fact that the crucible of creative pressure to compose on the spur of the moments disolves the ‘ego’ and allows unconscious connection with the wider cosmic gestalt (or something!).

    The publication is an Antipodean one. What season is it guys? Here in England, as with Scotland and I believe much of the eastern seabord of the United States, it is very much winter sitll.

    Anyway, get writing hokku candidates NOW for the season that is current with you. Our potential audience will have few expectations in this regard. So colleauges from climates that do not experience the 4 ‘temperate’ seasons have the opportunity to write exactly as they experience.

    Watch out for new page tabs appearing.

    GO!!! John

  262. lorin says:

    ‘The publication is an Antipodean one. What season is it guys?’

    Almost Autumn, thank goodness, here…. by the calendar, anyway. But still very much Summer.

    ah, well, this will be interesting. I am familiar with GDS and have had ‘long’ poems published in quite a few issues. They have recently acquired a haiku editor.

    cheers,

    lorin

  263. Sandra says:

    Would we also be considering offering “The First Warm Day”?

  264. John Carley says:

    Hi Sandra, Ashley is the man, but my understanding is that discussions around a shorter poem arose because the editor didn’t feel able to commit space to The First Warm Day.’

    Best wishes, John

  265. John Carley says:

    Hi everybody, I’ve finally finished that technical article I’ve been slaving at. It deals in a potentially radical way with a number of basic questions about how, why, where and when things may or may not repeat in a renku sequence.

    It is up on renku reckoner on the Link, Shift & Variety sub-menu. It is called ‘Occurrence and Recurrence’.

    Best wishes, John

  266. John Carley says:

    Hi everybody, I’ve set up a page called ‘New Junicho’ to seee if we can get a poem completed in short order. I’m posting a call for hokku there now.

    Meanwhile here we have the unfinished business of finding a place to publish the excellent ‘The First Warm Day’. I had thought of maybe submitting the poem to the new (first ever?) print renku magazine that Norman Darlington and Moira Richards are putting together. But that project seems some way down the line. Any thoughts?

    Best wishes, John

  267. colin stewart jones says:

    hi all
    #
    notes from th egean is now soliciting renku/renga

    we are pleased to announce that Alan Summers will be the editor

    i look for to seeing some of your work there!

    btw john
    i remember lilywhites just down from heaten park workies club
    me old man lived round the corner in rooden court just of whitakker lane ..he now lives on ostrich lane

    small world eh!

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